With BW Online on Sept. 11 for a hot debate were Dan Gookin, author of a number of books about Windows, and Bob LeVitus, who has done the same about Macintosh. They were joined by Stephen H. Wildstrom of BW's Technology & You column.
OnlineHost: Copyright 1995 America Online, Inc.
OnlineHost: Material entered into AOL by persons other than those identified as Business Week's employees or authorized representatives, acting on behalf of Business Week, is material for which Business Week assumes no responsibility.
OnlineHost: Good evening to all of you on AOL, and welcome to Business Week Online. Tonight we present a very special event -- a debate on the merits of the new Windows 95 system vs. the Mac. Where does the much-ballyhooed new Win95 leave Apple? Much of the hoopla includes references to how close Win95 comes to making PCs behave like Macs.
The computer world's passionate minority of Mac fans has wasted no time in taking this as a backhanded compliment -- and asking why you shouldn't go with Mac in the first place. To debate this issue, we have with us Dan Gookin and Bob LeVitus, along with Stephen H. Wildstrom of Business Week's popular Technology & You column.
Dan Gookin (Dgookin) has written the best-selling "Real Life Windows 95," "Word for Windows 6 for Dummies," "Buy That Computer!", and "PCs for Dummies" (third edition), all published by IDG Books Worldwide. As a sample of his approach, he says, "Computers are a notoriously dull subject, but that doesn't mean I have to write about them that way."
Bob LeVitus (LeVitus) is director of evangelism for Power Computing Corp., the first licensee of the Mac OS. While working as an editor and columnist, he managed to write 17 popular computer books, including recently "Macintosh System 7.5 for Dummies" for IDG and "WebMaster Macintosh" and "New and Improved Stupid Mac Tricks" for AP Professional.
Steve Wildstrom (SWildBW), who has presided over BW's Technology & You column since its inception in mid-1994, describes himself as an agnostic in the religious wars over operating systems. He uses both PCs with Win95 (for which he was a beta tester) and Macs running OS 7.5.1. He looks forward to trying Copland, the new version of Mac OS, when it's available. The moderator tonight is Jack Dierdorff (JackBW), consulting editor of BW Online.
JackBW: Good evening to everyone on AOL. And hi, Dan, Bob, and Steve.
LeVitus: Hey!
JackBW: Steve, you get to ask the first question.
SWildBW: Dan and Bob, could each of you state briefly what you think is the single best reason for choosing Win95 or Mac OS? Bob, you go first.
LeVitus: MacOS has all the features of Win95 and more, has had them for years and years, and they work. And they work most of the time. It's release 7.5 vs. release 1.0.
JackBW: Now, from Dan Gookin.
Dgookin: There is no reason to choose Windows 95 as your operating system. Seriously, there is no reason to choose it NOW. Eventually, you'll have no choice, since all the computer manufacturers and software developers have made that choice for you. Ha! Ha!
Of course, I'll get into the "merits" later, but for now, it's not really an option for anyone
LeVitus: I call foul! They DO have a choice! Mac OS!
JackBW: Clay Lifto in Cedar Rapids, Ia., has this question. Dan, you go first.Question: Why is it that Win95 seems to need 16 MB of RAM to run half decently? What does it take on a Mac?
JackBW: First part is for Dan, second for Bob.
Dgookin: Well, they say it needs only 4 megabytes, but it does need 16 MB (14 MB actually). The reason is the tremendous overhead required, since the PC basically has a 10-year-old ROM in it. The Mac has a lot of its operating system in ROM, which is unfair. And also there are graphical whiz-bang elements, and Microsoft has to plan for every option on every PC. Apple is one of the only companies making the Mac.
JackBW: Now, Bob.
LeVitus: Unfair or not, System 7.5 uses about 3.5 megabytes of RAM. It lets you run at least one program at a time very nicely on an 8 MB Mac.
SWildBW: They both need 16 MB of RAM to really run well.
LeVitus: I'd say a 16 MB Mac is more fun, and maybe a little more functional, but most users can certainly get by with 8 MB.
JackBW: HZimmerman, from Memphis, has this one.
Question: Hey, Bob, so do you think the Mac OS licensing program could get enough Mac clones on the street to make a dent in the Win95 world, barring OEM [component] shortages.
LeVitus: I sure hope so! After all, I do work for Power Computing, the first licensee. We see ourselves as becoming the Dell of the Macintosh direct business. Thanks for asking, Howard.
Dgookin: I don't think the Mac OS will ever take a chunk from Windows. Apple waited too long to wake up and realize that they were in the software biz. They might have pulled it off eight years ago, but Windows and Microsoft are everywhere now.
LeVitus: And so the poor people out there should use inferior software? Just 'cause more other people do? Balderdash!
JackBW: Here's a question about comparisons on one specific point.Question: Can the Mac drivers run the vast variations of printers as can Win95?
LeVitus: Yes, the Mac has drivers for almost every printer ever invented. And, unlike some operating systems, they generally work the first time (plug-and-play, anyone?).
Dgookin: Any Tandy printers? Diablo? Win95's drivers work right away. No complaints in the printer department.
JackBW: Dan, how do you respond to this from Ryk Ahimsa?Question: Won't Mac System 8 virtually make Win95 obsolete?
Dgookin: It most certainly will...! The day you can boot it on a Compaq clone!
LeVitus: We'll see. Though if Compaq starts making CHRP (common hardware reference platform [an Apple-IBM-Motorola standard for the PowerPC]) systems, you could well see Mac OS running on their iron.
Dgookin: Apple only needs to write software for their own junk. Microsoft has to support EVERYONE!
LeVitus: Good point, Dan.
JackBW: Phil Gump wants some specifics from Dan.Question: What does Win95 offer that Mac does not?
Dgookin: (1) All the software that runs on DOS and Windows 3.1 (which is more than the Mac), (2) support for a wider variety of devices and configurations, (3) better networking interface (they finally got it close to being intuitive), (4) I prefer Win95's task switching over what the Mac offers (personal opinion, Bob!), (5) cheaper hardware support. Oh, I could make up more, but I'm not a Microsoft boot-licking toady here.
JackBW: I can't believe Bob won't respond.
LeVitus: Well, point 1 is damning with faint praise, and points 2 and 3 are debatable. Point 4 is handled by any of several inexpensive desktop organizers. Point 5 I concede. Networking on the Mac is truly simple. I don't think Win95 is better. And most Mac hardware is now only a tad more expensive than its evil Wintel brethren.
JackBW: Dan has more to say on this.
Dgookin: Well, seeing the HUGE Windows market, most of the best new stuff comes out for Windows first! What's "new" from the Mac, huh? Maybe some shareware game? And Windows 95 has direct connections to the Internet. It actually works kinda sweet, providing you're into that sorta thing.
LeVitus: What's new? Marathon. Kicks DOOM's butt. And F/A-18. And A-10 Attack. And LOTS of good stuff.
JackBW: Trey Mcp wonders about Copland [the next version of Mac OS, planned for mid-1996 release].Question: What about Copland vs. Win95?
LeVitus: As to Copland, we'll see. It sure gives good demo...but nobody I know has actually run it.
Dgookin: Smoke and mirrors.
LeVitus: Yep.
JackBW: Take this from Andy O.Question: What kind of hardware would be necessary to run the Mac OS on an Intel-based machine and at what cost? Why isn't it happening?
Dgookin: What? Are you rich?
LeVitus: I don't think it's happening. Why should it?
Dgookin: Agreed.
LeVitus: It runs best on Motorola iron.
Dgookin: Motorola lead.
LeVitus: Why should a watered-down version (emulation?) be attempted?
SWildBW: The more interesting thing is Windows running on a Power PC. Not Win95, but Win NT. In theory, in about a year, there may be machines that can dual-boot Win NT and Mac OS. Now that would be cool.
LeVitus: Now, I can see some reason for THAT! That's very, very likely, Steve, from Power Computing and many others.
Dgookin: DEC Dimension. MSX PC. Power PC. All dead.
JackBW: LeConte3 has the next question.Question: What software options do Mac users have in comparison to Win95 users?
LeVitus: Well, we have at least a few entries in every product category -- many excellent choices including Photoshop, PageMaker/Quark, MS Office, and more, accelerated for PowerPC, so they outperform almost anything around, including most Pentiums.
Dgookin: I think they have almost a whole stack at Egghead. You can't argue with seeing tons of stuff in your local software-o-rama for Windows and very little for Mac. Granted, there is a lot of DTP and design stuff for the Mac.
LeVitus: That's 'cause Mac owners won't put up with bad service.
Dgookin: But if you want variety, you'll need to go elsewhere. They have no choice, Bob!
LeVitus: We buy almost all our software from discount catalogs, like Mac Warehouse.
JackBW: XRAS in the audience takes issue with an earlier answer. Dan? Question: It doesn't seem that the size of the Mac ROM supports Dan's assertion. How do you really account for '95 bloat?
Dgookin: Microsoft is hiring too many college grads and not enough hobbyists who learned it the hard way! Seriously, there's just a lot of bloat in every Microsoft program. Word went up from 13 MB on disk to over 16 MB with Windows 95. Don't ask me what they're writing this stuff in, LOGO? And on machines with less memory, Windows 95 is a S-L-U-G. That's why I don't think anyone really "needs" this operating system. Eventually, you will. But for right now, it's more a curiosity than a necessity. Heck, stay with DOS!
LeVitus: It's not quite that bad on the Mac, but there is certainly a trend toward bloat-age there, too.
JackBW: CrazdWeez throws this question in.Question: Microsoft seems to think that Win95 answers the PC vs. Mac debate over graphics. What do you think?
LeVitus: Try running Photoshop on a Pentium/Win95 vs. a PowerPC/Mac OS. It fairly screams on the Mac; it runs reasonably well on the PC. Remember that the Mac OS has supported graphics for 11 years. They've learned a lot in that time. I admit Win 3.1 and Win95 do a decent job with graphics and DTP [desktop publishing] programs. But they all run much faster and smoother on a Mac.
Dgookin: On the PC vs. Mac debate over graphics, it's a toss-up. There is some good stuff on both systems, but since most houses use Mac stuff, I'd stick with it if I were into graphical anything. This may change, depending on Win95's acceptance.
JackBW: This question sounds to me like a voice of reason.Question: Whether either system is superior, don't you think a more intelligent purchasing choice relates to application?
LeVitus: No argument from me.
Dgookin: Absolutely! An operating system is merely the key in the ignition. What you DO with the computer is far more important than the OS. Now, in a few months, maybe a year, all the major PC apps will be Win95-specific. At that time, it will be necessary for some to upgrade, simply to keep pace. Until then, stay with what you're using.
LeVitus: I think, with few exceptions, a person is better off with Mac OS. Those exceptions include vertical market programs, custom databases, and a few other reasons.
Dgookin: Yeah, like 90 million exceptions.
LeVitus: But as far as trouble-free operation and ease of use, the Mac definitely rules.
Dgookin: Rules! Rules! Rules! There are too many rules!
JackBW: Sone 100 in Erie, Pa., has this question.Question: I do desktop publishing. I understand the PC uses a parallel interface for printing that is much faster than the Mac. Is that true, and if so, do future Power Macs address that issue?
LeVitus: Is that true?
Dgookin: I have no idea.
LeVitus: HA! Looks like we're stumped again, Dan!
Dgookin: Stupid guest alert!
LeVitus: Wildstrom knows!
SWildBW: In desktop publishing, the limiting factor is almost always the printer's ability to process what's sent to it. The best way to speed up a PostScript printer on either system is to add memory to the printer.
Dgookin: Time to buy some Micron stock, eh?
JackBW: G David in Pelham, N.H., asks this -- one of several questions on Windows NT.Question: Do you think '95 will succeed in moving people toward Windows NT?
Dgookin: Perhaps, but NT still requires a lot more memory than Win95. I suppose it's Microsoft's goal to eventually combine things. I've heard a lot of positive things about NT (other than it can't send a fax), but have no personal experience. It is a different ballpark, though -- REAL password protection and a new, faster way to store files on disk. Personally, and I suppose for a lot of users, there isn't anything magnetic enough about it to draw us in. But with all the major stuff coming out with Win95 versions, that's a big draw. Also, coercing all the PC makers to pre-install Win95 is a major coup.
JackBW: JoshuaCT has been trying to get this cosmic question in.Question: What do you think is the overall future for Macintosh?
JackBW: I expect two opinions. Who's first?
Dgookin: Well, the Boston Computer Museum already has one.
JackBW: Bob?
LeVitus: A rise in market share, more and better accelerated applications, a whole new audience of home users using it to surf the Internet in the easiest way imaginable. Macintosh is like a BMW or Lexus, a finely tuned precision machine. PCs are like Ford Mustangs, lots of flash but not much substance.
JackBW: Bob, you talk eloquently. Is Apple as effective in telling its story?
LeVitus: HAHAHAHA. We can only hope. So far, they haven't done a very good job.Dgookin: Death! Death! Death! for the Mac. It's a STAGNANT platform with a dwindling software base.
LeVitus: Dwindling? How do you figure?
Dgookin: It took Apple too long to realize they're selling SOFTWARE and not hardware. Now they're trying to market the OS, but all the potential buyers are selling PC clones.
LeVitus: Over 11,000 applications. Thousands accelerated for PowerPC. What's DWINDLING about that?
Dgookin: Dwindling? Where is it all? How come all the new stuff is coming out for the PC first? And, more devastating than anything, why doesn't anyone want to talk about the much-rumored Win95 for the Macintosh? Talk about ha-ha!
LeVitus: It's at Mac Connection and Warehouse, and Computer City and CompUSA.
Dgookin: It's all lame, Bob! PC Connection, Micro Warehouse, Computer Discount Warehouse.
LeVitus: Win95 for Macintosh? That's like a Volkswagen engine for your Ferrari. Unthinkable.
Dgookin: The Mac is headed the way of the NeXT as far as software is concerned.
LeVitus: WRONG!
Dgookin: Name me one landmark Mac product since PageMaker? What's great on the Mac that wasn't on the PC first?LeVitus: Marathon. Photoshop. Director. CodeWarrior. Illustrator. F/A-18 Hornet.Dgookin: All have Windows versions, better-selling, too.
LeVitus: Yeah, but the Windows versions are slower and uglier.
Dgookin: And, oh yeah, Mac users waste their "Ferraris" playing games. Tooohooo!
JackBW: Let me break in and ask one final question. How long will we have to wait for the market's verdict?
Dgookin: The market verdict is in: Mac is dead! Ugly is only Tyvek-sleeve deep!
JackBW: You're so subtle, Dan.
Dgookin: I'm the B in subtle.
LeVitus: All I have to say to that is "20 million loyal Mac users can't be wrong."
Dgookin: Or out of a lot of money.
LeVitus: I've said it all already.
Dgookin: 90 million PC users! 8 million to 10 million Windows users.
LeVitus: 90 million PC users don't know what they're missing!
Dgookin: Their Visa is paid off.
LeVitus: Macs don't cost much more any longer! Power Computing has made PowerPC affordable for the masses!Dgookin: And the radiation from the Mac monitors makes you stupid! See?
JackBW: O.K., alas, that's a wrap. Guys, we ought to do this again in a few months. Thanks, Dan, Bob, Steve.
OnlineHost: Thanks to Dan Gookin speaking for Windows 95, Bob LeVitus for the Mac, Steve Wildstrom of Business Week, and all the BW Online team for this conference debating the rival computer systems. And thanks to all of you on AOL -- with apologies to all of you whose questions we didn't have time for.
If you'd like to continue the discussion, we invite you to move to the BW Online Chat Room or post comments and questions on the BW Online Message Boards (try the Computers & Communications category). Transcripts of this and all other BW Online conferences are available soon after the event (look under Talk, Special Events, or Search BW, and for this one also in the Computer Room, under What's New on the BW Online opening screen).
There's another BW Online event Wednesday, Sept. 13, on a revolutionary new way to simplify heart-bypass surgery (9 pm ET, Coliseum). And remember to join us in the Globe every Sunday at 9 pm ET for BW Online's weekly conference with editors and newsmakers, usually featuring a discussion of the Cover Story in the current issue of Business Week. Thanks again and goodnight!
Copyright 1995 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc. All rights reserved.
